The Sultan Colony of Orang Utan = Hominoid Colony ?

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  • #1398
    Anonymous

      Here is one piece of news from the late Johor sultan colony of Orang utans.

      It is well known that in the late 1960s, the then Sultan Ismail kept 40 Orangutans of which some were given away, while the rest are believed to be released into Johor forest. See news here : http://www.sinchew.com.my/content.phtml?sec=1&artid=200602241503 and here : http://www.chinapress.com.my/content_new.asp?dt=2006-02-25&sec=malaysia&art=0225mb70.txt

      In 1968, 4 Orangutans were given to Perth Zoo from the collection of the colony of Sultan Ismail.

      One of these, a wild-born female named Puan, was the founder of the zoo’s present colony; she has produced 11 offspring (the last at the age of 40), and is now one of the oldest known members of her species. She is now 53 years old – which made her 15 at the time she was given away by the late Sultan- (Reference: ORANGUTANS AND THEIR BATTLE FOR SURVIVAL by Leif Cocks. University of Western Australia Press)

      Here is a current picture of 53 year old Puan in Perth Zoo

      I found it remarkedly similar to the colony of hominoids found by the logger.

      Quote:

      When the colony was first detected in the jungles of Johor in the 70s, there were only 15 members, the source said, adding that two members are believed to have died or got separated from the group and set up their own colonies or groups.

      The source said the older members of the Bigfoot then were in their 20s, adding that it was believed that Bigfoot there were now in their 50s to 60s. (Puan was 20’s in the 70s, and now in her 50’s) Over the years, the source said, their number grew to about 40, made up of three families.

      “The 40 comprised adults and young ones, as well as males and females,� the source said.

      Here is Peter Loh’s sketch of the Mawas taken from cryptomundo website based on Vincent’s description of the alleged photographs. I have put a female orang utan beside it for comparsion. I think Charles’s orangutan theory is becoming more possible now, much more logical than the Homo Erectus theory proposed by Vincent. The age, the size, the diet, breeding pattern of the colony all points to the colony of the Sultan which was released to the jungle.

      #6766
      Anonymous

        Fengshui,

        The english translation can be found here: http://www.api.sg/research/MYbigfoot/Sin-Min-Bf.pdf

        The possibility of the Orang Utan colony was written here: http://www.api.sg/research/MYbigfoot/BF.htm#s8.8

        Kudos to you for finding out more of this colony. Your analysis of the data and linking them to current reporting of events to draw out the conclusion is commendable. I am proud to be your brother.

        I think we have just seen a photo of this lost colony!

        #6767
        Anonymous

          Here’s more support for Charles Orangutan’s theory, this time coming from no less an authority than Malaysia Zoo Negara Curator who has 40 years’ experience

          Big footprints may belong to Orang Utan By Johan Afandi, Beritan Harian News, 1 March 2006

          For English translation, please see below by our Malaysian chapter Ajeyya.

          Another picture of grandmother Puan. We may have found her lost brothers and sisters in the Johor jungles!

          #6768
          Anonymous

            I thnk it is important for the western media to understand that they should not take ‘literall’ and directly what is being told to them.

            Notice that in this case, the orang utan in the negara zoo is

            According to the curator, the oldest mawas that is born in the Zoo is now 37 years old, has height of 2 m and weight of 120 kgs.

            Now, we know that that the avrage height of the Orang Utan is only only 1.1 to 1.5 m. But the apparent built of the creature can make people mistaken its size. I have already explained how easily can people be decieved about its size in my Malaysian Bigfoot Enigma article. Else how could the zoo has a 2 m tall Orang Utan??

            If that be true… that I suggest EVERYONE IN THE CRYPTO COMMUNITY TAKE A PLANE THERE NOW, cos we just have a new hominod specie on our hand!

            BUt understanding how the Malay culture works is important.

            A careful observer may notice that Vincent Chow has abandoned the concept of his Bigfoot, no longer the Gigantopithecus Blacki, but embranced a smaller creature and a new name of Homo Erectus (I must fathom where he learnt that from).

            It is funny how come no one mention so what he conclude of the Bigfoot cast by the other group, which resembled either a very big hand or a dinosaur feet. It bears nothing to a feet beloinging to any hominod or mawas or homo erectus.

            It is also funny that what the sketch and photos of the Malaysian Mawas, is now dependent on the memory of a man, who had seen the photos of a apelike creature. But of the method he deployed to ascertain the 8 to 10 feet height? How did he came to that conclusion?

            Let me tell you now. It was from his own bigfoot hunt in the plantation of kampung Lukut, where the evidence of broken tree branches could be attributed to a variety of animals, not by the knocking of a clumsy creature that break the branches due to its height. Can you imagine that this creature must have lotsa bandages on his head!

            It is most likely nest making for resting or sleeping by either the orangutan or sunbear.

            Have they heard the siamang howl??? It sounded just like the sound emited people heard who say its the bigfoot howl..!

            So now Vincent uses his own findings (however simple) in Lukut, the human hair he found in nearby panti, and then from just photos of an old person, who may have taken those photos from long ago when the old man knew of those orang utans, which have been taken anywhere and anytime 10 to 30 years ago. Then lump it all together and you get the Johor Bigfoot. Oh I forgot, the Johor Mawas now.

            It is a mad world, and those who is not familar with malaysian culture, and hinges their reputation on this current fisaco, may find themselves falling into a very deep pit.

            #6769
            Anonymous

              Dear All,

              Am pretty surprised, but somehow the surprise is quite expected, because based on this one, both the Johor royal family and even the Australian Perth Zoo authorities agrees that the “Mawas” and the “Orang Utan” refers to the same being. Their initial agreement in this terminology seemed to pose no difficulties to them, and it is only now, 30 years later, that there can be so much confusion amongst the terms “Mawas”, “Orang Utan”, “Bigfoot” and now to the extend of Homo Erectus.

              In addition to that, I can’t agree more to Charles, because one must realise that there are just so much differences in culture and language. A typical Malay girl living in the city may say, “Kita tunggu abang bawa, kita tak nak pergi sendiri” (“We wait for brother to bring, we don’t want to go alone” when the meaning she may have behind is “I am waiting for darling (abang literally means brother, but a Malay girl calls her husband or boyfriend as abang as well) to bring, I don’t want to go alone”. “Kita” literally means “We” and yet it is often used in the context of talking in a way to people that they are very close with and which is to show child-like intimacy.

              One must understand that historically the Malay language borrows a lot of foreign language, including the Pali and Sanskrit and in modern times even English, as the original Malay language vocabulary is not adequate to cover everything in this world. A study on the history will see the influence brought by Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, and Arabic/Islamic culture in the language as well as the basic culture. And then too, as a very refined and soft group, the aborigines and the more rural Malay society may find some things strange and magnified to the point of exaggeration. For example, two people hugging and kissing in public is easily accepted by the Western culture, but it may invite shy giggles if this act of hugging and kissing is seen by the aborigines and rural Malays. In fact, the village Shaman may even condemn the couple if they had originated from the village itself, saying that the couple had not been able to preserve the heritage but instead be influenced by the Western culture.

              The translation by fengshui has covered the points very well, and here is a direct translation of the newspaper report.
              ======================

              Berita Harian, 1 March 2006
              JOHOR BAHRU: Kesan tapak kaki yang dipercayai Bigfoot dijumpai beberapa pihak di hutan Johor,

              berkemungkinan besar milik mawas atau Orang Utan dewasa yang dibebaskan Almarhum Sultan Ismail di

              hutan Johor kira-kira 30 tahun lalu.

              Kurator Zoo Negara, Tumar Said, berkata walaupun sebelum ini, tiada rekod menyatakan mawas atau

              Orang Utan wujud di hutan Semenanjung, kemungkinan ia tinggal di hutan Johor tidak boleh ditolak.

              Katanya, ia disebabkan pendedahan Tunku Mahkota Johor sendiri bahawa nendanya, Almarhum Sultan

              Ismail melepaskan haiwan itu di hutan Johor tiga dekad lalu.

              Beliau berkata, mawas dan Orang Utan adalah haiwan sama dan hanya boleh ditemui di hutan Kalimantan

              dan Borneo saja, tetapi beberapa tempat juga sudah memelihara haiwan itu termasuk di Bukit Merah,

              Perak.

              “Jadi tidak mustahil mawas boleh berada di hutan Semenanjung. Jika ada pihak yang melepaskannya di

              situ, mereka sudah pasti boleh hidup dan membesar di dalam hutan seperti di Kalimantan dan Borneo.

              “Ini kerana cuaca dan keadaan muka bumi hutan tidak banyak perbezaan, selain mudah bagi mereka

              mencari makanan disebabkan mereka memakan buahan, pucuk kayu dan daun,” katanya ketika dihubungi,

              semalam.

              Katanya, mawas tertua yang ada dan dilahirkan di Zoo Negara, kini berusia 37 tahun, mempunyai ketinggian

              kira-kira 2 meter dan seberat kira-kira 120 kilogram.

              Tumar berkata, Mawas boleh berjalan menggunakan dua kakinya yang melebar dan kembang dengan

              semua jari terbuka.

              “Dengan berat badan melebihi 100 kilogram tidak mustahil tapak kaki mawas itu akan menjadi lebih besar

              sekiranya berjalan di permukaan lembut seperti pasir dan lumpur.

              “Jika tapak kaki lebar dan terbuka ketika berjalan, jika ia memijak permukaan lembut seperti pasir atau

              lumpur, tidak mustahil tapaknya akan membesar disebabkan beratnya melebihi 100 kiligram,” katanya yang

              mempunyai pengalaman kira-kira 40 tahun di Zoo Negara.

              Tumar berkata, sekiranya keluarga diraja Johor pernah melepaskan sekumpulan mawas di dalam hutan

              Semenanjung, adalah tidak mustahil tapak kaki yang dijumpai ketika ini milik mawas.

              Katanya, jika mawas yang diberikan kepada zoo di Australia masih hidup, kemungkinan mawas yang

              dibebaskan di hutan negeri ini juga masih hidup dan besar kerana hidup liar selain boleh membiak.

              Sementara itu, Pengurus Media Zoo Perth, Australia, Debbie Read dalam jawapan e-melnya kepada Berita

              Harian, berkata Mawas dan Orang Utan adalah haiwan yang sama.

              Katanya, secara kebetulan salah seekor daripada empat Orang Utan yang diterimanya daripada keluarga

              diraja Johor kira-kira 30 tahun lalu bernama Mawas sudah mati.

              Beliau berkata, seekor lagi Orang Utan bernama Puan berasal dari Zoo Johor adalah Mawas tertua di dunia

              yang hidup dalam kurungan melahirkan anak ketika berusia 40 tahun pada 1993.

              Translation:

              Johor Bahru: The footprints believed to belong to Bigfoot found by a few people in the Johor forests may most likely (big possibility) to belong to the adult Orang Utan set free by the late Sultan Ismail in the Johor forests about 30 years ago.

              The National Zoo curator, Tumar Said said, although before this there had been no records of mawas or Orang Utan existing in the forests in Peninsular, the possibility that it resided in the Johor forests cannot be denied.

              He said, it is because of the revelation by Tunku Mahkota Johor himself that his grandfather, the late Sultan Ismail had released the animal into the Johor forest 3 decades ago.

              He said, the mawas and the Orang Utan are the same animal and can only be found in the Kalimantan and Borneo forests, but a few places already started rearing the animal, including Bukit Merah, Perak.

              “So it is not impossible that the mawas can be in the Peninsular forests. If there are authorities releasing them there, surely they are able to live and to grow in the forest just like in Kalimantan and Borneo.

              “This is because the climate and earth surface has not much difference, besides, it is easy for them to find food because they eat fruits, tree sprouts and leaves,” he said when contacted yesterday.

              He also said that the oldest mawas that is in existence and was born in the National Zoo, is now 37 years old, bearing a height of almost 2 metres and as heavy as 120kg.

              Tumar said, the mawas can walk with both feet that are broad and wide with all toes spread open/apart.

              “With a body weight of more than 100kg, it is possible that the footprint of th emawas may be bigger if it walked on soft surface such as sand and mud.

              “If the footprint is large and ‘open’ when it walked, if it stepped on soft surface such as sand or mud, the footprint may be even bigger if the weight is more than 100kg,” said the man with about 40 years of experience in the National Zoo.

              Tumar said, if the royal family of Johor had released a group of mawas in the forest of Peninsular, it is possible for the footsteps found at this moment to belong to the mawas.

              He said, if the Mawas given to the zoo in Australia is still alive, it is possible that the mawas freed in this state’s forest will still be alive and grown because besides living in the wild, it will also start breeding.

              Meanwhile, the Media Manager of the Perth Zoo in Australia, Debbie Read replied in her email to the Berita Harian that the Mawas and the Orang Utan are the same animal.

              She said, coincidentally one of the 4 Orang Utans received by her from the Johor royal family about 30 years ago called as the Mawas had died.

              She aslso said, one of the Orang Utans called “Puan” originated from the Johor Zoo is the oldest Mawas in the world, living behind walls and gave birth when it was about 40 years of age in the year 1993.

              – by Johan Afandi, Berita Harian, Thursday 1 March 2006.

              #6770
              Anonymous
                #6771
                Anonymous

                  Nice done.. you did it, fengshui?

                  #6772
                  Anonymous

                    Yes, these are pictures I collected from the internet. Some are Sumatran species , some are Borneo species, some are mixed bred.

                    I have found also a few interesting mawas pictures taken from a worker in Perth Zoo. (http://website.lineone.net/~underwaterobs/wildlife%20page%201.htm)

                    This is a picture of “Pop”,the father of Puan’s baby (see below) and many other babies at the Perth Zoo. This was when he was in his prime taken in 1970. He died in 1997. (?) So I believe he was one of the mawas donated by the late Sultan of Johor private zoo collection of mawas.

                    And this is the picture of Puan and the first baby she delivered in Perth Zoo. She went on and delivered 10 more babies. Don’t you think she look feminine in the dark?

                    #6773
                    Anonymous

                      is it just me or does each of them look distinguished as individuals just as us humans?

                      beautiful, simply beautiful.

                      #6774
                      Anonymous

                        Orang utans owned by the late Johore Sultan Ismail in the late 60’s : estimated to be 40

                        Out of the 40, 4 are mentioned by Perth Zoo to be given to them by the late Sultan:

                        The Royal Prince of Johore Tengku has said that besides giving away some of the mawas, some were released into the Johor jungle.

                        Source from Johor Wildlife Protection Society about Orang Lenggor:

                        When the colony was first detected in the jungles of Johor in the 70s, there were only 15 members, the source said, adding that two members are believed to have died or got separated from the group and set up their own colonies or groups.

                        The source said the older members of the Bigfoot then were in their 20s, adding that it was believed that Bigfoot there were now in their 50s to 60s. Over the years, the source said, their number grew to about 40, made up of three families. One close to 60 and nearing death

                        “The 40 comprised adults and young ones, as well as males and females,� the source said.

                        The colony of 4 given to Perth : Older members 20 + (in the 1970’s), now in their 50’s
                        Over the year, this colony has grown to at least 18. 2 of the founding colony have died (Pop and Mawas. Mawas died at 57 years old)

                        The colony released to the jungle : 17. Older members 20+ (in the 1970’s), now in their 50’s. One member close to 60 and dying.
                        2 have died or move away. Grown to 3 family of 40.

                        #6775
                        Anonymous

                          The Gerik Link

                          If we can get the last link, that is if the late Sultan released the mawas into Gerik forest instead of the Johor, we would have solved the mystery of the Johor Wildlife Protection Society’s colony once and for all.

                          See here for the news and about Gerik Forest:

                          JOHOR BARU, Feb 22 (Bernama) — A colony of “Bigfoot” believed to be roaming the jungles of Johor is said to have moved there from the jungles around Gerik in Perak, according to a source.

                          The source said the colony, now numbering about 40, had originated as a group of 17 and had moved away due to three main reasons — the skirmishes between soldiers and communist guerrillas in the early 70s, construction of the East-West Highway and the building of a dam.

                          In its search for a new habitat, the colony had moved southwards and reached Pahang before getting to Johor, the source told Bernama, here Wednesday.

                          When the colony was first detected in the jungles of Johor in the 70s, there were only 15 members, the source said, adding that two members are believed to have died or got separated from the group and set up their own colonies or groups.

                          The source said the older members of the Bigfoot then were in their 20s, adding that it was believed that Bigfoot there were now in their 50s to 60s.

                          Over the years, the source said, their number grew to about 40, made up of three families.

                          “The 40 comprised adults and young ones, as well as males and females,” the source said.



                          Gerik Forest in Perak

                          If the late Sultan Ismail who is an known animal lover is deciding where to release his mawas, he might have chose the Belum Forest near Gerik over Endau Rompin? Look at the description of the forest, the variety of wild life and the salt licks. It is an animal heaven!



                          The Royal Belum forest is located in the Gerik, Perak, area (Hulu Perak). It is believe that the forest reserve coverage is about 290,000 hectares and with more than 146,000 hectares of virgin forest. The forest is divided into two sections: the upper Belum area, which stretches to the Thai-Malaysian border covering 117,500 hectares of impenetrable jungle and the lower Belum mostly covered by Temenggor Lake. The State of Perak has decided to preserve the Belum and Temenggor forests as a permanent nature reserve for research.

                          The entire forest of Belum and Temenggor was considered a ‘black area’ and was placed under a State of Emergency from 1948 until 1989. The communist party of Malaya was extremely active in that area and according to sources; the East-West Highway proposed by an army General believed cutting a road through the area would hamper the communists’ movements. However, this road was constantly under threat of being bombed and sabotaged by renegades. Peace has since reigned over the area after the signing of the Haadyai Accord in 1989.

                          Flora and Fauna

                          Our most precious wildlife remains safe in Belum. There are an estimated 60-70 tigers roaming around in Belum, over 100 Seladangs survive here in groups of single males and their harems, the Sumatran Rhinos are estimated at 160 individuals and there are over 100 Tapirs. Elephants live in large tight knit families, Binturongs come out at night, Malayan Sun Bears scale trees for huge honey combs and the Serow hide away in the limestone hills. The wild fishing cats sit patiently for its food to swim down the streams as the wildcats crouch in thick undergrowth. Here, so many species share space in Belum such as Leopard Cats, Clouded Leopards, Black Panthers, Vipers, Flying Foxes, Otters, Porcupines, Armadillos, Reptiles, Dholes and 200 species of colourful birds.
                          The Belum Forest is also home to some 25 rare species of flies, and a few endemic prawns that have live here for centuries that cannot be found in any other part of the country.

                          Belum forest is facing dangers from excessive poaching and the loss of habitat. Local poachers and those from Thailand are the main threat. Wildlife trafficking is becoming a serious problem and more so for the meat and exotic pet market.

                          It is estimated that there are at least 60 salt licks scattered around the Belum area. The salt licks are important for the animals’ wellbeing and there is a potential for the operators to develop certain areas for eco-tourism. However, these plans must be researched extensively because it has been proven that introduction of people to the area will cause the animals to flee from their usual waterholes and saltpans, which has occurred in Taman Negara. The animals are sensitive to change. Salt licks are usually covered with all types of animal tracks. The Sambar Deer, the Kijangs, Tapirs, Elephants, wild boars, the Sumatran Rhino, Seladang and the Malayan Gaur – come down to the licks, usually under the cover of the darkness.
                          Elephant tracks can also be found crossing the salt lick areas. One can determine the age of the elephant by the size and pattern of the tracks as well as the dung found along the trail. The animals also smear mud onto their bodies to clear themselves of parasites, boar ticks and sometimes to seal open wounds from infection and contamination. Males often urinate and defecate around the salt lick area to mark out their territories as they leave.

                          #6776
                          Anonymous

                            This is amazing news, Fengshui..

                            We have solve the old communist informer, the colony, and why it looked for salt!

                            Let’s dig deeper and see where it goes..

                            #6777
                            Anonymous

                              Durian and salt link:

                              Quote :

                              They like to eat fish and fruits they gather in the jungles, including durian. They also have a liking for river water that contains dissolved salt and would walk for miles to get it.

                              1) Orangutan love durians, and is one of their preferred fruits.

                              2) A study in 1987 by WWF Malaysia on Sabah orangutan from the sample of leaves collected from the forests found that the amounts of two minerals : sodium as well as phosphorus were inadequate for the needs of mammals.

                              This does not matter for animals eating flesh. It also does not matter for large ground dwelling animals which can range far and wide for natural mineral licks. But for orangutans who are tree dwelling, salt become important and is key to their survival….

                              #6778
                              Anonymous

                                I have just reviewed the book : Johor Bigfoot: The Beginning of a True Story, written by a news reporter.

                                There was one startling comment by Wee Poh Chin from the Johor Wildlife Protection Society.

                                The Tengku then had hold a press conference to inform that his grandfather had kept 40 orangutans, some of which were given away to Zoo while some where released to the jungles.

                                These orang utans released know how to walk on 2 legs!

                                Wee said that many people have confused these bipedal walking orangutans with bigfoot.

                                They have seen these bipedal orangutans many times in the jungle. Some people just called them MAWAS. It is when they were tracking these bipedal orangutans that they met the real BIGFOOT
                                –taken from pg 73 of the book

                                30 years of hope

                                Hope that the South Perth Zoo’s 30 year old orang utan would at last have a baby have been dashed.

                                The newborn animal died, despite elaborate preparations to assure the safety of mother and baby.

                                Western Australia top obstetrician was standing by to assist with the delivery, an eminent anaestheticist agreed to help.

                                The zoo’s director , Mr Tom Spence, said that Mawas (pictured) was checked every night.

                                Late on the night the baby was born, Mawas showed no sign that a birth was imminent. But the baby died before medical aid could be given.

                                Mr Spence said it was difficult to say Mawas would become pregnant again.

                                But the zoo may soon have another young orang utan.

                                THe day after Mawas baby died, a tst confirmed that a younger female, Puan was pregnant. If all goes well, her baby will be born in about 6 months.

                              • Author
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                              • #1398

                                Anonymous
                                • Offline

                                  Here is one piece of news from the late Johor sultan colony of Orang utans.

                                  It is well known that in the late 1960s, the then Sultan Ismail kept 40 Orangutans of which some were given away, while the rest are believed to be released into Johor forest. See news here : http://www.sinchew.com.my/content.phtml?sec=1&artid=200602241503 and here : http://www.chinapress.com.my/content_new.asp?dt=2006-02-25&sec=malaysia&art=0225mb70.txt

                                  In 1968, 4 Orangutans were given to Perth Zoo from the collection of the colony of Sultan Ismail.

                                  One of these, a wild-born female named Puan, was the founder of the zoo’s present colony; she has produced 11 offspring (the last at the age of 40), and is now one of the oldest known members of her species. She is now 53 years old – which made her 15 at the time she was given away by the late Sultan- (Reference: ORANGUTANS AND THEIR BATTLE FOR SURVIVAL by Leif Cocks. University of Western Australia Press)

                                  Here is a current picture of 53 year old Puan in Perth Zoo

                                  I found it remarkedly similar to the colony of hominoids found by the logger.

                                  Quote:

                                  When the colony was first detected in the jungles of Johor in the 70s, there were only 15 members, the source said, adding that two members are believed to have died or got separated from the group and set up their own colonies or groups.

                                  The source said the older members of the Bigfoot then were in their 20s, adding that it was believed that Bigfoot there were now in their 50s to 60s. (Puan was 20’s in the 70s, and now in her 50’s) Over the years, the source said, their number grew to about 40, made up of three families.

                                  “The 40 comprised adults and young ones, as well as males and females,� the source said.

                                  Here is Peter Loh’s sketch of the Mawas taken from cryptomundo website based on Vincent’s description of the alleged photographs. I have put a female orang utan beside it for comparsion. I think Charles’s orangutan theory is becoming more possible now, much more logical than the Homo Erectus theory proposed by Vincent. The age, the size, the diet, breeding pattern of the colony all points to the colony of the Sultan which was released to the jungle.

                                  #6766

                                  Anonymous
                                  • Offline

                                    Fengshui,

                                    The english translation can be found here: http://www.api.sg/research/MYbigfoot/Sin-Min-Bf.pdf

                                    The possibility of the Orang Utan colony was written here: http://www.api.sg/research/MYbigfoot/BF.htm#s8.8

                                    Kudos to you for finding out more of this colony. Your analysis of the data and linking them to current reporting of events to draw out the conclusion is commendable. I am proud to be your brother.

                                    I think we have just seen a photo of this lost colony!

                                    #6767

                                    Anonymous
                                    • Offline

                                      Here’s more support for Charles Orangutan’s theory, this time coming from no less an authority than Malaysia Zoo Negara Curator who has 40 years’ experience

                                      Big footprints may belong to Orang Utan By Johan Afandi, Beritan Harian News, 1 March 2006

                                      For English translation, please see below by our Malaysian chapter Ajeyya.

                                      Another picture of grandmother Puan. We may have found her lost brothers and sisters in the Johor jungles!

                                      #6768

                                      Anonymous
                                      • Offline

                                        I thnk it is important for the western media to understand that they should not take ‘literall’ and directly what is being told to them.

                                        Notice that in this case, the orang utan in the negara zoo is

                                        According to the curator, the oldest mawas that is born in the Zoo is now 37 years old, has height of 2 m and weight of 120 kgs.

                                        Now, we know that that the avrage height of the Orang Utan is only only 1.1 to 1.5 m. But the apparent built of the creature can make people mistaken its size. I have already explained how easily can people be decieved about its size in my Malaysian Bigfoot Enigma article. Else how could the zoo has a 2 m tall Orang Utan??

                                        If that be true… that I suggest EVERYONE IN THE CRYPTO COMMUNITY TAKE A PLANE THERE NOW, cos we just have a new hominod specie on our hand!

                                        BUt understanding how the Malay culture works is important.

                                        A careful observer may notice that Vincent Chow has abandoned the concept of his Bigfoot, no longer the Gigantopithecus Blacki, but embranced a smaller creature and a new name of Homo Erectus (I must fathom where he learnt that from).

                                        It is funny how come no one mention so what he conclude of the Bigfoot cast by the other group, which resembled either a very big hand or a dinosaur feet. It bears nothing to a feet beloinging to any hominod or mawas or homo erectus.

                                        It is also funny that what the sketch and photos of the Malaysian Mawas, is now dependent on the memory of a man, who had seen the photos of a apelike creature. But of the method he deployed to ascertain the 8 to 10 feet height? How did he came to that conclusion?

                                        Let me tell you now. It was from his own bigfoot hunt in the plantation of kampung Lukut, where the evidence of broken tree branches could be attributed to a variety of animals, not by the knocking of a clumsy creature that break the branches due to its height. Can you imagine that this creature must have lotsa bandages on his head!

                                        It is most likely nest making for resting or sleeping by either the orangutan or sunbear.

                                        Have they heard the siamang howl??? It sounded just like the sound emited people heard who say its the bigfoot howl..!

                                        So now Vincent uses his own findings (however simple) in Lukut, the human hair he found in nearby panti, and then from just photos of an old person, who may have taken those photos from long ago when the old man knew of those orang utans, which have been taken anywhere and anytime 10 to 30 years ago. Then lump it all together and you get the Johor Bigfoot. Oh I forgot, the Johor Mawas now.

                                        It is a mad world, and those who is not familar with malaysian culture, and hinges their reputation on this current fisaco, may find themselves falling into a very deep pit.

                                        #6769

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                                          Dear All,

                                          Am pretty surprised, but somehow the surprise is quite expected, because based on this one, both the Johor royal family and even the Australian Perth Zoo authorities agrees that the “Mawas” and the “Orang Utan” refers to the same being. Their initial agreement in this terminology seemed to pose no difficulties to them, and it is only now, 30 years later, that there can be so much confusion amongst the terms “Mawas”, “Orang Utan”, “Bigfoot” and now to the extend of Homo Erectus.

                                          In addition to that, I can’t agree more to Charles, because one must realise that there are just so much differences in culture and language. A typical Malay girl living in the city may say, “Kita tunggu abang bawa, kita tak nak pergi sendiri” (“We wait for brother to bring, we don’t want to go alone” when the meaning she may have behind is “I am waiting for darling (abang literally means brother, but a Malay girl calls her husband or boyfriend as abang as well) to bring, I don’t want to go alone”. “Kita” literally means “We” and yet it is often used in the context of talking in a way to people that they are very close with and which is to show child-like intimacy.

                                          One must understand that historically the Malay language borrows a lot of foreign language, including the Pali and Sanskrit and in modern times even English, as the original Malay language vocabulary is not adequate to cover everything in this world. A study on the history will see the influence brought by Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, and Arabic/Islamic culture in the language as well as the basic culture. And then too, as a very refined and soft group, the aborigines and the more rural Malay society may find some things strange and magnified to the point of exaggeration. For example, two people hugging and kissing in public is easily accepted by the Western culture, but it may invite shy giggles if this act of hugging and kissing is seen by the aborigines and rural Malays. In fact, the village Shaman may even condemn the couple if they had originated from the village itself, saying that the couple had not been able to preserve the heritage but instead be influenced by the Western culture.

                                          The translation by fengshui has covered the points very well, and here is a direct translation of the newspaper report.
                                          ======================

                                          Berita Harian, 1 March 2006
                                          JOHOR BAHRU: Kesan tapak kaki yang dipercayai Bigfoot dijumpai beberapa pihak di hutan Johor,

                                          berkemungkinan besar milik mawas atau Orang Utan dewasa yang dibebaskan Almarhum Sultan Ismail di

                                          hutan Johor kira-kira 30 tahun lalu.

                                          Kurator Zoo Negara, Tumar Said, berkata walaupun sebelum ini, tiada rekod menyatakan mawas atau

                                          Orang Utan wujud di hutan Semenanjung, kemungkinan ia tinggal di hutan Johor tidak boleh ditolak.

                                          Katanya, ia disebabkan pendedahan Tunku Mahkota Johor sendiri bahawa nendanya, Almarhum Sultan

                                          Ismail melepaskan haiwan itu di hutan Johor tiga dekad lalu.

                                          Beliau berkata, mawas dan Orang Utan adalah haiwan sama dan hanya boleh ditemui di hutan Kalimantan

                                          dan Borneo saja, tetapi beberapa tempat juga sudah memelihara haiwan itu termasuk di Bukit Merah,

                                          Perak.

                                          “Jadi tidak mustahil mawas boleh berada di hutan Semenanjung. Jika ada pihak yang melepaskannya di

                                          situ, mereka sudah pasti boleh hidup dan membesar di dalam hutan seperti di Kalimantan dan Borneo.

                                          “Ini kerana cuaca dan keadaan muka bumi hutan tidak banyak perbezaan, selain mudah bagi mereka

                                          mencari makanan disebabkan mereka memakan buahan, pucuk kayu dan daun,” katanya ketika dihubungi,

                                          semalam.

                                          Katanya, mawas tertua yang ada dan dilahirkan di Zoo Negara, kini berusia 37 tahun, mempunyai ketinggian

                                          kira-kira 2 meter dan seberat kira-kira 120 kilogram.

                                          Tumar berkata, Mawas boleh berjalan menggunakan dua kakinya yang melebar dan kembang dengan

                                          semua jari terbuka.

                                          “Dengan berat badan melebihi 100 kilogram tidak mustahil tapak kaki mawas itu akan menjadi lebih besar

                                          sekiranya berjalan di permukaan lembut seperti pasir dan lumpur.

                                          “Jika tapak kaki lebar dan terbuka ketika berjalan, jika ia memijak permukaan lembut seperti pasir atau

                                          lumpur, tidak mustahil tapaknya akan membesar disebabkan beratnya melebihi 100 kiligram,” katanya yang

                                          mempunyai pengalaman kira-kira 40 tahun di Zoo Negara.

                                          Tumar berkata, sekiranya keluarga diraja Johor pernah melepaskan sekumpulan mawas di dalam hutan

                                          Semenanjung, adalah tidak mustahil tapak kaki yang dijumpai ketika ini milik mawas.

                                          Katanya, jika mawas yang diberikan kepada zoo di Australia masih hidup, kemungkinan mawas yang

                                          dibebaskan di hutan negeri ini juga masih hidup dan besar kerana hidup liar selain boleh membiak.

                                          Sementara itu, Pengurus Media Zoo Perth, Australia, Debbie Read dalam jawapan e-melnya kepada Berita

                                          Harian, berkata Mawas dan Orang Utan adalah haiwan yang sama.

                                          Katanya, secara kebetulan salah seekor daripada empat Orang Utan yang diterimanya daripada keluarga

                                          diraja Johor kira-kira 30 tahun lalu bernama Mawas sudah mati.

                                          Beliau berkata, seekor lagi Orang Utan bernama Puan berasal dari Zoo Johor adalah Mawas tertua di dunia

                                          yang hidup dalam kurungan melahirkan anak ketika berusia 40 tahun pada 1993.

                                          Translation:

                                          Johor Bahru: The footprints believed to belong to Bigfoot found by a few people in the Johor forests may most likely (big possibility) to belong to the adult Orang Utan set free by the late Sultan Ismail in the Johor forests about 30 years ago.

                                          The National Zoo curator, Tumar Said said, although before this there had been no records of mawas or Orang Utan existing in the forests in Peninsular, the possibility that it resided in the Johor forests cannot be denied.

                                          He said, it is because of the revelation by Tunku Mahkota Johor himself that his grandfather, the late Sultan Ismail had released the animal into the Johor forest 3 decades ago.

                                          He said, the mawas and the Orang Utan are the same animal and can only be found in the Kalimantan and Borneo forests, but a few places already started rearing the animal, including Bukit Merah, Perak.

                                          “So it is not impossible that the mawas can be in the Peninsular forests. If there are authorities releasing them there, surely they are able to live and to grow in the forest just like in Kalimantan and Borneo.

                                          “This is because the climate and earth surface has not much difference, besides, it is easy for them to find food because they eat fruits, tree sprouts and leaves,” he said when contacted yesterday.

                                          He also said that the oldest mawas that is in existence and was born in the National Zoo, is now 37 years old, bearing a height of almost 2 metres and as heavy as 120kg.

                                          Tumar said, the mawas can walk with both feet that are broad and wide with all toes spread open/apart.

                                          “With a body weight of more than 100kg, it is possible that the footprint of th emawas may be bigger if it walked on soft surface such as sand and mud.

                                          “If the footprint is large and ‘open’ when it walked, if it stepped on soft surface such as sand or mud, the footprint may be even bigger if the weight is more than 100kg,” said the man with about 40 years of experience in the National Zoo.

                                          Tumar said, if the royal family of Johor had released a group of mawas in the forest of Peninsular, it is possible for the footsteps found at this moment to belong to the mawas.

                                          He said, if the Mawas given to the zoo in Australia is still alive, it is possible that the mawas freed in this state’s forest will still be alive and grown because besides living in the wild, it will also start breeding.

                                          Meanwhile, the Media Manager of the Perth Zoo in Australia, Debbie Read replied in her email to the Berita Harian that the Mawas and the Orang Utan are the same animal.

                                          She said, coincidentally one of the 4 Orang Utans received by her from the Johor royal family about 30 years ago called as the Mawas had died.

                                          She aslso said, one of the Orang Utans called “Puan” originated from the Johor Zoo is the oldest Mawas in the world, living behind walls and gave birth when it was about 40 years of age in the year 1993.

                                          – by Johan Afandi, Berita Harian, Thursday 1 March 2006.

                                          #6770

                                          Anonymous
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                                            #6771

                                            Anonymous
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                                              Nice done.. you did it, fengshui?

                                              #6772

                                              Anonymous
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                                                Yes, these are pictures I collected from the internet. Some are Sumatran species , some are Borneo species, some are mixed bred.

                                                I have found also a few interesting mawas pictures taken from a worker in Perth Zoo. (http://website.lineone.net/~underwaterobs/wildlife%20page%201.htm)

                                                This is a picture of “Pop”,the father of Puan’s baby (see below) and many other babies at the Perth Zoo. This was when he was in his prime taken in 1970. He died in 1997. (?) So I believe he was one of the mawas donated by the late Sultan of Johor private zoo collection of mawas.

                                                And this is the picture of Puan and the first baby she delivered in Perth Zoo. She went on and delivered 10 more babies. Don’t you think she look feminine in the dark?

                                                #6773

                                                Anonymous
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                                                  is it just me or does each of them look distinguished as individuals just as us humans?

                                                  beautiful, simply beautiful.

                                                  #6774

                                                  Anonymous
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                                                    Orang utans owned by the late Johore Sultan Ismail in the late 60’s : estimated to be 40

                                                    Out of the 40, 4 are mentioned by Perth Zoo to be given to them by the late Sultan:

                                                    The Royal Prince of Johore Tengku has said that besides giving away some of the mawas, some were released into the Johor jungle.

                                                    Source from Johor Wildlife Protection Society about Orang Lenggor:

                                                    When the colony was first detected in the jungles of Johor in the 70s, there were only 15 members, the source said, adding that two members are believed to have died or got separated from the group and set up their own colonies or groups.

                                                    The source said the older members of the Bigfoot then were in their 20s, adding that it was believed that Bigfoot there were now in their 50s to 60s. Over the years, the source said, their number grew to about 40, made up of three families. One close to 60 and nearing death

                                                    “The 40 comprised adults and young ones, as well as males and females,� the source said.

                                                    The colony of 4 given to Perth : Older members 20 + (in the 1970’s), now in their 50’s
                                                    Over the year, this colony has grown to at least 18. 2 of the founding colony have died (Pop and Mawas. Mawas died at 57 years old)

                                                    The colony released to the jungle : 17. Older members 20+ (in the 1970’s), now in their 50’s. One member close to 60 and dying.
                                                    2 have died or move away. Grown to 3 family of 40.

                                                    #6775

                                                    Anonymous
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                                                      The Gerik Link

                                                      If we can get the last link, that is if the late Sultan released the mawas into Gerik forest instead of the Johor, we would have solved the mystery of the Johor Wildlife Protection Society’s colony once and for all.

                                                      See here for the news and about Gerik Forest:

                                                      JOHOR BARU, Feb 22 (Bernama) — A colony of “Bigfoot” believed to be roaming the jungles of Johor is said to have moved there from the jungles around Gerik in Perak, according to a source.

                                                      The source said the colony, now numbering about 40, had originated as a group of 17 and had moved away due to three main reasons — the skirmishes between soldiers and communist guerrillas in the early 70s, construction of the East-West Highway and the building of a dam.

                                                      In its search for a new habitat, the colony had moved southwards and reached Pahang before getting to Johor, the source told Bernama, here Wednesday.

                                                      When the colony was first detected in the jungles of Johor in the 70s, there were only 15 members, the source said, adding that two members are believed to have died or got separated from the group and set up their own colonies or groups.

                                                      The source said the older members of the Bigfoot then were in their 20s, adding that it was believed that Bigfoot there were now in their 50s to 60s.

                                                      Over the years, the source said, their number grew to about 40, made up of three families.

                                                      “The 40 comprised adults and young ones, as well as males and females,” the source said.



                                                      Gerik Forest in Perak

                                                      If the late Sultan Ismail who is an known animal lover is deciding where to release his mawas, he might have chose the Belum Forest near Gerik over Endau Rompin? Look at the description of the forest, the variety of wild life and the salt licks. It is an animal heaven!



                                                      The Royal Belum forest is located in the Gerik, Perak, area (Hulu Perak). It is believe that the forest reserve coverage is about 290,000 hectares and with more than 146,000 hectares of virgin forest. The forest is divided into two sections: the upper Belum area, which stretches to the Thai-Malaysian border covering 117,500 hectares of impenetrable jungle and the lower Belum mostly covered by Temenggor Lake. The State of Perak has decided to preserve the Belum and Temenggor forests as a permanent nature reserve for research.

                                                      The entire forest of Belum and Temenggor was considered a ‘black area’ and was placed under a State of Emergency from 1948 until 1989. The communist party of Malaya was extremely active in that area and according to sources; the East-West Highway proposed by an army General believed cutting a road through the area would hamper the communists’ movements. However, this road was constantly under threat of being bombed and sabotaged by renegades. Peace has since reigned over the area after the signing of the Haadyai Accord in 1989.

                                                      Flora and Fauna

                                                      Our most precious wildlife remains safe in Belum. There are an estimated 60-70 tigers roaming around in Belum, over 100 Seladangs survive here in groups of single males and their harems, the Sumatran Rhinos are estimated at 160 individuals and there are over 100 Tapirs. Elephants live in large tight knit families, Binturongs come out at night, Malayan Sun Bears scale trees for huge honey combs and the Serow hide away in the limestone hills. The wild fishing cats sit patiently for its food to swim down the streams as the wildcats crouch in thick undergrowth. Here, so many species share space in Belum such as Leopard Cats, Clouded Leopards, Black Panthers, Vipers, Flying Foxes, Otters, Porcupines, Armadillos, Reptiles, Dholes and 200 species of colourful birds.
                                                      The Belum Forest is also home to some 25 rare species of flies, and a few endemic prawns that have live here for centuries that cannot be found in any other part of the country.

                                                      Belum forest is facing dangers from excessive poaching and the loss of habitat. Local poachers and those from Thailand are the main threat. Wildlife trafficking is becoming a serious problem and more so for the meat and exotic pet market.

                                                      It is estimated that there are at least 60 salt licks scattered around the Belum area. The salt licks are important for the animals’ wellbeing and there is a potential for the operators to develop certain areas for eco-tourism. However, these plans must be researched extensively because it has been proven that introduction of people to the area will cause the animals to flee from their usual waterholes and saltpans, which has occurred in Taman Negara. The animals are sensitive to change. Salt licks are usually covered with all types of animal tracks. The Sambar Deer, the Kijangs, Tapirs, Elephants, wild boars, the Sumatran Rhino, Seladang and the Malayan Gaur – come down to the licks, usually under the cover of the darkness.
                                                      Elephant tracks can also be found crossing the salt lick areas. One can determine the age of the elephant by the size and pattern of the tracks as well as the dung found along the trail. The animals also smear mud onto their bodies to clear themselves of parasites, boar ticks and sometimes to seal open wounds from infection and contamination. Males often urinate and defecate around the salt lick area to mark out their territories as they leave.

                                                      #6776

                                                      Anonymous
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                                                        This is amazing news, Fengshui..

                                                        We have solve the old communist informer, the colony, and why it looked for salt!

                                                        Let’s dig deeper and see where it goes..

                                                        #6777

                                                        Anonymous
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                                                          Durian and salt link:

                                                          Quote :

                                                          They like to eat fish and fruits they gather in the jungles, including durian. They also have a liking for river water that contains dissolved salt and would walk for miles to get it.

                                                          1) Orangutan love durians, and is one of their preferred fruits.

                                                          2) A study in 1987 by WWF Malaysia on Sabah orangutan from the sample of leaves collected from the forests found that the amounts of two minerals : sodium as well as phosphorus were inadequate for the needs of mammals.

                                                          This does not matter for animals eating flesh. It also does not matter for large ground dwelling animals which can range far and wide for natural mineral licks. But for orangutans who are tree dwelling, salt become important and is key to their survival….

                                                          #6778

                                                          Anonymous
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                                                            I have just reviewed the book : Johor Bigfoot: The Beginning of a True Story, written by a news reporter.

                                                            There was one startling comment by Wee Poh Chin from the Johor Wildlife Protection Society.

                                                            The Tengku then had hold a press conference to inform that his grandfather had kept 40 orangutans, some of which were given away to Zoo while some where released to the jungles.

                                                            These orang utans released know how to walk on 2 legs!

                                                            Wee said that many people have confused these bipedal walking orangutans with bigfoot.

                                                            They have seen these bipedal orangutans many times in the jungle. Some people just called them MAWAS. It is when they were tracking these bipedal orangutans that they met the real BIGFOOT
                                                            –taken from pg 73 of the book

                                                            30 years of hope

                                                            Hope that the South Perth Zoo’s 30 year old orang utan would at last have a baby have been dashed.

                                                            The newborn animal died, despite elaborate preparations to assure the safety of mother and baby.

                                                            Western Australia top obstetrician was standing by to assist with the delivery, an eminent anaestheticist agreed to help.

                                                            The zoo’s director , Mr Tom Spence, said that Mawas (pictured) was checked every night.

                                                            Late on the night the baby was born, Mawas showed no sign that a birth was imminent. But the baby died before medical aid could be given.

                                                            Mr Spence said it was difficult to say Mawas would become pregnant again.

                                                            But the zoo may soon have another young orang utan.

                                                            THe day after Mawas baby died, a tst confirmed that a younger female, Puan was pregnant. If all goes well, her baby will be born in about 6 months.

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